Betsy Cerulo: Welcome to Room at the Table, an opportunity for you to join me, Betsy Cerulo and my guests for conversations about creating equitable and inclusive workplaces where leaders rise above mediocrity and our teams thrive. Pull up a chair, there's always Room at the Table. 

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Welcome to another meaningful conversation on Room at the Table. I am Betsy Cerulo, your host, and welcome to my guests today, Shanae Murray, Chief of Administration and Performance Management for the Maryland Aviation Administration, and Patrick Mutch, the CEO of Chase Brexton Health Care. Today, we're talking about what being an ally means and how important allyship is to strengthening communities. So both Shanae and Patrick have dedicated their careers to equity and acceptance for all people. So pull up a chair, enjoy your favorite beverage, and let's get started. So welcome, my friends. It is so good to have you both on the show. My admiration, respect, and love for you, and all you have done for the LGBTQ+ community leaves me in awe. I'm so excited to share a rich conversation today about being an ally. So I'm going to start with our first question, what do you both believe being an ally means? Shanae? 

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Shanae Murray: Okay, I'll get started. So, for me, Betsy, being an ally is being supported. It's showing up, even in the places where you're not completely certain if there are other allies in the room and supporters. I have been very fortunate to be very intentional to be able to surround myself with people that were supportive of the LGBTQ+ community. Growing up, I've been exposed to it, and my career fell into it. And now, being the parent of a child that exists in that community, I am all in.

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That's music to my ears. Shanae, we've had many conversations on being an ally in diversity. Though both of you have done so much for the LGBTQ+ community, there's so many places to be an ally. I know in my work, I'm a strong ally for the disabled community with a lot of the work that AdNet does and various initiatives that I get involved in, and also with people of color. I think we've all had conversations and been involved where we're just tired of the nonsense that we see out there, and we've got to use our influence as allies to open up the doors and keep the world safe, because it's not safe right now. So Patrick, what are your thoughts on being an ally?

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Patrick Mutch: We can play off each other now. When Shanae said “fell into it,” now, that's what I did. I fell into this role coming up in a completely different environment, actually being raised in a completely straight white community. To be in a position now to stand with LGBTQ and all underserved communities, it's my most rewarding CEO experience of many that I've had. It is all about standing with those communities. Now, when I'm out socially with people, there's a conversation, there's an interest. Again, people that aren't familiar with Chase Brexton don't have a lot of exposure to the LGBT community. There's an opportunity for me to stand up and really speak and educate and it really is very, very rewarding. So, Shanae thanks for the opportunity to play on what you said. I hadn't had that in mind. Perfect. 

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Well, I think as you were talking, Patrick, I was thinking of our mutual friend, Neil Meltzer. It makes a difference when there is an influential and kind straight white male who's out there pushing for various groups, and we need more people like that out there doing the work. I know that the work, Shanae, that you've done along in your career, and Patrick, with Chase Brexton, the difference that you both have made in healthcare. Again, another system that's kind of broken, but you both have put yourselves on the line to make sure that there's fairness and that's part of the courage of being, I'm gonna say, an out ally. Out, not being not having to be gay, but you're out there in full force. So, do a little bragging right now. So, Shanae, I'm going to swing back to you. How have you served the allied communities? 

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Well, Betsy, I'm just gonna think of some milestones for me. You know this story, Betsy. When my daughter was a student at Towson University, it was our home that was that safe place. So she would bring someone home that just needed a shoulder to cry on, who she knew needed acceptance. So our home was that space. The other advantage I've had in growing up is having, and this was in the 70s, I had a first cousin who was a member of the Transparent Ladies of Baltimore. He showered and encouraged me with so much energy and passion for who I was as a young girl growing up in Baltimore. Little did I know that his encouragement to help me dress and help me stand and how to walk and how to be a lady, I didn't realize the space that he was existing in and how he could shower me with these experiences. I think of that today, and I just admire him for what he did for me. Being able to embrace others for exactly who they are, it's just so important. I think, from those experiences, and then, of course, being introduced to Chase Brexton Health Care, which was so pivotable in my career, to immerse myself in that community and to be a supporter, and now, here at BWI Airport, to be able to continue that platform of helping people feel belonged and appreciated within the work community, and everything that we do internally for employees, and then the community that we serve. It's just so important to consistently show up in those different ways. 

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Absolutely. Patrick?

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Yeah, I was thinking about an analogy that I often say. I'm the great cheerleader for Chase Brexton. Shanae beautifully titled me the Chief Encouragement Officer instead of Chief Executive Officer. I loved it. I haven't used it as much since you've been gone, Shanae. But I should because it sure fits both the role and my own values. But if you go to the Ravens games and the people come out with the Ravens flags, they lead it. But the people really doing the work are behind them. That's what I feel like at Chase Brexton, being able to lead an organization that has long valued diversity and has put it in its mission statement. We recently revised ours three years ago and remained committed to that in the mission statement that we would honor diversity. What we added was that we would address health inequities. It's become more commonplace to discuss that issue, the health inequities that are for the LGBT community and other marginalized, underserved communities that have trouble accessing health care. So that mission statement really does guide me, and it really is easy for me, then, to make a difference in the community. That just becomes intrinsic. 

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Absolutely, absolutely. How do you both see being a good ally impacts our workplaces and our communities? Patrick, now I'm going to start with you. 

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Well, I think what we end up trying to achieve, then, are some really tangible results that our staff see, that our patients see and come away with the organization that walks the walk. It just doesn't talk the talk. Mission statements are some things that every organization has, and in many cases, people within them say, well, I'm not so sure they're aligned as well with their mission. Some of the more tangible things that I've been able to support here, and I don't say accomplished myself, because it's a team, we really do deliver affirming care that is very different than what you would find in another primary care setting. We're very concerned with pronouns and legal names and adopted names and sexual preference and gender, etc. So that, and again, we make mistakes some days with our patients. We don't do it all right. But it really is our goal to be 100%. So I mean, that's first and foremost is that we deliver affirming care that is really unique. As an organization, we also train and equip our health professionals, some of whom come in with not as much experience in these areas, and therefore, we're training them. Now, our Center for LGBTQ Health Equity goes out, and actually goes ahead and sort of sells its services to other organizations that now realize they need the skills not only for their health professionals, in some cases, for their employees to be sensitive to these issues. So we've actually built a business in our training expertise. It's just terrific. And the last point I'd make is probably advocacy. We really advocate at the state and national level for the LGBTQ community and other underserved communities. We really want to be visible. We want people to recognize what we do and the importance of it. So those are all the ways that I think we tangibly add value to this mission. 

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I do want to add, Patrick, that with Shanae's facilitation, the Maryland LGBT Chamber and the Foundation, we participated in an amazing DEI training at Chase Brexton that was put on by Chase Brexton. I know everybody who walked away from that, we definitely had aha moments. I know there were several. It was outstanding, an outstanding body of work. Having been a participant of it, I feel that anyone that comes to Chase Brexton for this type of work would walk away with more than what they expected. So bravo to you and the team for that. And Shanae, thank you for making that happen for us. 

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You're welcome. 

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Thank you. 

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So now your turn, Shanae. 

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Okay, so I think, for me, that advocacy works internally to the job that I have, as well as in the community. I'll start with being a public servant. So our governor, Governor Moore, has the slogan that no one will be left behind. That really resonates with me, because in my job as the Chief of Administration and Performance Management, our division is responsible for touching not only all our people, but the traveling public. So within our division, we have human resources, safety and risk management, the offices of DEI, we have administrative services, we have organizational development. So whether it's training our people to serve the public and to serve each other as public servants, everything that we do, we cannot leave anyone behind. So whether we are creating programs to inform our workforce and to help them to be successful advocates for everything that we have to do as public servants, it's just really important. It's the forefront of our responsibility as public servants. We get a chance, as public servants, to show up in the different communities. Things that we do within our community, whether it's political, whether it's social, whether it's economic impact within our communities, our employees are out volunteering. We have hundreds of employees that volunteer on a regular basis. So making sure that we're allowing our employees to be themselves, to show appreciation, to let them know that they matter and they can bring their whole selves to work, and making sure that they understand that we're creating a culture of inclusivity. At the end of the day, everyone wants to be valued and honored and appreciated. Those are the things that, as the Chief of this division, I am so intentional to make sure that our employees understand that. Because when we feel like we belong and we are part of this great community and public servants, that emotion will flow within our community into our traveling public. 

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I noticed the different times of the year that I do travel, you can see the themes in the airport that honor everyone because hundreds of thousands, millions of people utilize the airports in Maryland, and there's so much diversity. So people have to feel safe. They should. They've earned that right. That's a big job for what an entire airline community, travel community, with so many different people using it, you have to shift and evolve almost every day because, sometimes, whatever's going out in the world, people are bringing that on their person as they're going to their next flight. So we all feel that when we go somewhere when we're on travel. We want the experience to be enjoyable. No one wants to go anywhere, seeing other people being belittled or held back. So, being a traveler, I appreciate everything that you do to keep that space as sacred as possible.

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Thank you, Betsy, I have the best job ever. It doesn't feel like a job. I get to help people be successful every day. That's my mantra. That's why I'm here. And the wonderful thing about helping our employees to be successful is they get to write the script. It's not about what Shanae wants. But we have over 500 employees, and they get to write their own script on what success looks like. I'm just the navigator.

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See, that's inspiring leadership, because whatever the context, if, as leaders, we focus on supporting our teams to be successful, what a beautiful thing.

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That's why I feel excited every day when I walk through the airport.

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Absolutely. Well, now I'm going to swing back to you, Shanae, with something a little different. So as a woman of color, how do you quickly detect that a person is not genuine, when their actions are not aligned with a person who says they are an ally? 

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Well, one of the things I've learned very early, and this is something that my mom used to say, who, bless her heart, is 92 years old. I hear what you say, but I'm looking at what you do as well. So it matters. It matters what you say, It matters what you do. There's a connection to both of those. I am a very authentic person. I am told that I'm very approachable. I like when people can come to me and be very candid about how they're feeling about a situation. I am a good listener, I really try to help. Unfortunately, sometimes, I go into how I can help them fix it mode. But I'm learning that sometimes people just want you to listen. So I look for that when I'm engaging in an experience with someone, whether it's, "I need you to listen. I'm going to tell you that right up front," or at the end of what the need is, let's come up with, let's brainstorm on some solutions. So I think it's really important that we listen. My daughter always used to tell me, "Mom, don't judge. Don't judge. Just be open," because we all have peaks and valleys in life. We all have different experiences. Sometimes I give someone the benefit of the doubt when they make a quick assumption or they judge. So that's how I navigate that.

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Yeah, no, I appreciate that. And, Patrick, I'm gonna throw a little bit of a curveball in here. So you're a strong ally. You must certainly be around people who need to be better at being allies. How do you handle that? When you see someone, I'll say, another straight white dude misbehaving, how do you handle it? 

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Well, listening is the first step. As Shanae said, we have to meet people where they are and recognize they are right, that's where they're starting from, right or wrong, accept it or not. And then, I think it goes to really being courageous and speaking and educating. The aha moment that, as you say, all of us get when we learn more, particularly when we immerse ourselves into equity, diversity, inclusion, there's always an aha moment for all of us. I don't care how far advanced or how open we are, receptive to all things, there is an aha moment. So I think it just requires education. It requires a calmness so that there isn't an elevation of, oh, you are absolutely stupid with your comment, you're so ill-informed. Clearly, I wouldn't do that. But I'm saying you can convey that in how you respond to somebody. So it's bringing people along. And I can assure you, I'm in quite a few settings where that happens.

 

Yeah, I'm sure. What I appreciate is I am certainly around multiple people that will just ask me, I've had family members, well, "I've never been exposed to x. What do I say? Or what does that mean?" Now, me being LGBT, I'll be the first one to tell you, I don't understand every aspect. I don't understand every acronym. But it doesn't mean that you poopoo it. Educate me. So I appreciate when someone says, "I want to be better at this, I want to say the right thing. Can you help me?" You begin to help someone get a little bit more educated. I find that a lot for AdNet, it involves the trans community, because there are some people that I am around who are in our generation, and this is, in some aspects, new for them. So I don't make them wrong. I appreciate their courage and willingness to ask the questions, and then I walk them through what some potential approaches could be. But I think, as you both have said, a common thing is really listening to understand. No one's asking you to change who you are, just to be embracing and sensitive. If we take away all of our diversity, and we just stand as human beings where there's no separation of who's what, male, female, whatever, we all have different experiences and, and stuff that requires sensitivity and listening and compassion. If we could just be that way in life, I just think, if we could teach more of that in life, it'll just naturally happen. I think some of that really begins at home. It begins when kids are really young. I will say, and I am so proud of my son and daughter-in-law, the books that they have for our five-year-old grandson, I'd have to say every single book I pick up pretty much has diverse characters, diverse content. It could be a same-sex family, almost every category but modified so that a little being can read it and appreciate it. So you know, if kids start to read those things early on, then it's commonplace when they walk out in the world, and they see a black or brown person or Hispanic, oh, it's in my book. Do you know what I mean? As silly as that sounds, because if you think about the books we read his kids, who was pretty much one of the few people of color? Franklin in Charlie Brown. How many did we really see that were people of color or any kind of diverse group growing up? There certainly wasn't a story about anybody who was gay. 

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Betsy, your comments triggered a thought that I just need to share. As a black woman in the C-suite, it's been my experience that a lot of times I was the first or the only one, and so I had to navigate this space very cautiously. So when I am around younger African American women now, the things that I experienced 15, 20, 25 years ago, they are still having some of those experiences on a smaller level. It's really interesting to see how, although we have evolved and I'm very grateful to work here at BWI, and when you go to our website, our leadership team predominantly are women of color, we are rocking it here at BWI. 

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Awesome. Awesome. 

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But that happened because our CEO, an African American man that grew up in Baltimore City, was very intentional. I love when you can see someone else in a role, you aspire and you believe that you can be there too. We cannot take that intentionality lightly. It has to be very targeted. I am going to make sure that women are represented in the transportation industry. There's not a lot of women in transportation and engineering. But we have achieved something that I am not for sure that any in the transportation business mode has achieved. I feel good about that today. But I think about the experiences that I've had to endure over the past 10 or 15 years to get here. It feels so good to be acknowledged, to say, Shanae, I see you, I value you, you matter, you will make a difference in our organization, because this opportunity opens the door for many other women. Because, again, we don't see women in transportation in leadership roles. But it's happening.

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I'm so grateful to hear that because there's just aspects, there's gifts, talents, that women bring. Men bring certain talents, women bring certain talents. And to have a woman's approach in leadership, I think we've earned that place. We see how the world has been, we see how business has been. Patrick, you're one of those people that opens the door of opportunity for people to get ahead, which is magnificent. You are an example that I wish more men would behave the way you do, the way you open those doors. But for women, it's our turn. It is our turn. I have said this to some of my male colleagues, how would you like an opportunity? Why don't you just go play golf for months, years, and let us take the wheel and see how it goes? I have met a number of men that said, I am happy to pass the torch, but there are some men and some women with certain ideals that won't pass the torch. And if we can just share the leadership, share and embrace other people's ideals and their journeys, I just think we could just be doing so much better.

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In health care, women dominate the workforce, and are beginning to dominate the senior leadership as well. There are more female CEOs than ever before. In all, I don't know the percentage, but I can tell you just by reading the headlines, it's happening in healthcare as well. Clearly in the C-suite, women dominate probably in the numbers, but in the number one role, they've really begun to emerge. In many ways, almost more women are hired in those roles than men. And frankly, in health care, if you can't figure out how, as a man, how to work well with women, if there's some intrinsic issue that you have about that, you better not join the healthcare environment.

 

Right. Or any environment. 

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Or any environment. For sure, in the one that I've lived for decades. 

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Yeah. Well, I'm grateful for the two of you because I know that this topic, whether it's allyship or its equity, or prospering and pushing women to the front, you both have done so much for that. In the community and what you've done, how do you both handle situations where a person from your community does not understand why you support the communities you support and continues to make inappropriate comments? How do you handle that?

 

Again, I think it goes back to, you have to meet people where they are. Be willing to listen, share insight. I like telling stories. I find that when I tell the story of how I existed in this space and what I’ve learned along the way, it opens up a dialogue. I think telling my story, because it's my story, only I can tell my story, and giving people that opportunity to just experience some of the things that I have experienced as well as listening to their story and why they may be struggling with it. No judgment, it just is what it is, and I can help you along the way. I think that the bright side of that is, once you understand someone's journey and where they are, it's a learning, it's a learning moment. It's an appreciative moment. So, I don't get caught up and you don't understand me, I don't understand you. It's just an opportunity for us to share our stories. And at the end of the day, you win and I win, because you've heard my story and I heard yours.

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Absolutely. I've had to correct a few friends over the years and say what worked for us when we were teenagers doesn't work anymore. You just can't say that. Yeah, can't say it.

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Yeah, the comment that Shanae made that I think really is sort of a non-starter in those kinds of discussions are to say, “But you don't understand.” That right away puts the individual you're talking with sort of on their heels. So I try to avoid that one and start in a different intro to begin to explain our story and what we stand for and what we’re trying to accomplish and what people are dealing with in their own lives. I mean, these issues are complex for people. They aren't easy, sort of like Shanae's story. These are challenges for individuals to work through and to really rise up. So, to do that, you have to give people the opportunity. I guess in some cases, the folks that we talk with don't want to give people that benefit of the doubt and that opportunity.

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When I go into conversations like this, it's almost like I have to, before I go into the conversation, I have to put a white light around myself and just remind myself, just always be kind. They just don't understand. Just educate them. This is why you're here, just educate. There have definitely been times when, and we've all had it, where someone will make a comment off the cuff that is like, “Ouch.” For so many years, we have been told to mind your manners, say nothing, be quiet. That's how I was raised. You don't challenge it if someone says something like that. But as I've gotten older, like we both have, it doesn't matter. So now we have to deliver it in a way that creates an opening for someone to be willing to have a mutual conversation to understand it better. 

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Betsy, we have to be the change that we want to see. We must. There's no ifs, ands, buts maybes, howevers about it. If we desire a culture of inclusivity and belonging, we have to be that. Even with the people that don't want to be a part of the change, we have to accept them too, right? Because you'll be a crazy person if you don't, and you don't want to spend real good time and effort and energy trying to change someone that's going to be stuck where they are.

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I know. That's tough when you accept, but you have to walk away from some relationships because of those kinds of situations, those incidents. Now when I do it, I would get so aggravated and, ugh, angst. Now, you kind of let go. I love you and let go, or let go and let God.

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It's amazing. I turned 60 last year, and I really learned to embrace that. Let it go.

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I have this saying that juice is not worth the squeeze. And for my own mental health and physical health and peace and joy and abundance and good vibes, you just have to let it go.

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Yeah. It makes for a better quality of life that way.

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Absolutely. That's good self-care practice.

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Absolutely. So we have come to the end of our questions. So as we bring this to closure, I'd like to ask you both, what words of wisdom would you like to leave our listeners with when it comes to allyship? So, Shanae, would you like to start?

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I'll say, be the change that you want to see, be supportive, ask questions. It's okay not to know everything about existing and navigating in this space. But be open.

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Patrick?

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I would say, in my role, the support role is so important. Shanae and I talked about both trying to lift up people and see them grow. It's really, be supportive. Be supportive of really seeing all individuals grow in their God-given talents. And so that's what turns me on. I can tell you that. Same thing that turns Shanae on.

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The workforce and the state of Maryland is so fortunate to have you both in leadership roles. Your leadership doesn't just end at the end of your workday. You live and breathe it in who you both are. When I'm around both of you, not just me, when many people are around both of you, I always walk away with a wonderful experience, a wonderful feeling. I feel loved, I feel cared for. I appreciate everything that you both have given to the community, every single community, not just the LGBT community, every community out there in Maryland, every person that you touch, just really appreciate who you are. You are two of the most amazing allies I know. Thank you so much for all you have given us.

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The love is mutual from me to you to Shanae and all around.

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Yes. Yes. Thank you, Betsy.

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Absolutely. So thank you again for participating in our conversation today. And to our listeners out there, please, if you're ever wanting to really step up your allyship in the world, just tap in to Shanae Murray and Patrick Mutch. So thank you so much, everyone, and have a wonderful day.